Thriving As A Woman In a Male-Dominated Industry: Jill Tietjen of Technically Speaking On The Five Things You Need To Thrive and Succeed as a Woman In a Male-Dominated Industry | by Candice Georgiadis | Authority Magazine

Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood “backstory”?

I am the oldest of four children of an aerospace engineer and an elementary school teacher. I played the violin starting at age 8 and although my friends today consider me athletic, my K-12 education was before Title IX and athletic opportunities weren’t open to girls. I did play tennis. I started working in the public library at age 14 — with a special permit allowing me to work because I wasn’t yet 16. I was active in extracurricular activities throughout school and rose to leadership positions in many organizations.

Can you tell us the story about what led you to this particular career path?

Growing up, we were always told how important education was and that we would be going to college. My heart was set on attending the University of Virginia (UVA). Fortunately for me, UVA admitted women as undergraduates for the first time in the Fall of 1970. I entered in the Fall of 1972 as a math major — not in the engineering school because no one, not even my PhD engineer father, said I should study engineering. But I was lucky, I quickly discovered that engineering was for me and worked with the engineering school dean to transfer in. I graduated with a degree in applied mathematics and a minor in electrical engineering and went to work in the electric utility industry at Duke Power (today Duke Energy) because they wanted my fiancé (who was a nuclear engineer) and they got me in the bargain. Planning work in the electric utility industry was a perfect fit for me. After Duke I worked at other firms and launched my consulting business in 2001. I have sat on the board of directors of Georgia Transmission Corporation of Tucker, Georgia since 1997 and was on the board of directors of Merrick & Company of Greenwood Village, Colorado from 2010 to 2021.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?

There are so many stories — I will share two.

1. My first week on my first job out of college, my supervisor at Duke Power decided that I needed to visit power plants to get some real-world knowledge. At one of the coal-fired power plants, we walked around the turbine floor to see the turbine-generators. Then we took the elevator up to see the control room. When we exited the elevator, I realized we were in the men’s locker room! One man was there, but thankfully for me he was fully dressed. This demonstrated to me for maybe the first time the dearth of women in the electric utility industry.

2. I did a lot of expert witness work during my career, primarily before public utility commissions. This particular story occurred before the Wyoming Public Service Commission. I was testifying on behalf of Black Hills Power, based in Rapid City, South Dakota, in their case requesting the certificate needed to construct a coal-fired power plant in Gillette, Wyoming. During my testimony, I stated that the analysis that had been completed demonstrated that the power plant proposed was the best choice to provide safe, economic and reliable power. The Deputy Commissioner, really, just to be obnoxious, said to me, Ms. Tietjen, are you saying the other options aren’t safe? I stumbled through my answer. Black Hills Power got the certificate.

You are a successful business leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?

Since I have been inducted into the Colorado Women’s Hall of Fame, the Colorado Authors’ Hall of Fame and the National Academy of Construction, it appears that others believe I am successful. I feel there is so much more for me to do. With that caveat, here are three traits and stories.

1. Never give up. When I was working on one of my books, my co-author told me that she had a project she was working on and she needed to do some tasks in a spreadsheet. But, she couldn’t figure it out so she stopped. This was before Google and before smart phones and before YouTube. I was flabbergasted. What do you mean, you stopped? I never even envisioned that as an option! When you have a task to do you figure it out — if that requires asking everyone you know, you ask, but you have to get the task done and you don’t give up, you get it done.

2. Find a way. When someone tells me I can’t do it, or women can’t do it, that just stiffens my backbone and makes me try harder. In fact, the 50 successful women profiled in my book Over, Under, Around, and Through: How Hall of Famers Surmount Obstacles found a way — they went over, under, around, or through the obstacles that were in their way. They used mental intelligence, emotional intelligence, social support, moral compass — spirituality, determination — perseverance — persistence, creativity, optimism, resilience, action-orientation, and passion either singly or in combination to overcome the obstacles. We each have these abilities, too.

3. Prepare for the worst thing that you think could happen. The worst thing almost never happens, but if it does, you are ready for it as well as every other lesser worse thing. Do not obsess about it. Look calmly at the actions that you would take if it did happen. For me, the worst thing did happen. Nine months after my first husband and I were married, his parents died in a murder-suicide. We were 22 years old. His 14-year-old and 18-year-old brothers came to live with us. We got them both through high school, college, and the younger one through law school. And we continued working full time, got our MBAs at night, and I continued my extracurricular activities including playing my violin in the community orchestra and playing tennis. We kept putting one foot in front of the other, taking one step at a time.

Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the primary focus of our interview. Can you help articulate a few of the biggest obstacles or challenges you’ve had to overcome while working in a male-dominated industry?

Being a small woman in a male-dominated industry has led to many challenges. I will focus on credibility and invisibility. Many years ago, I heard Dr. Doris Kuhlmann-Wilsdorf speak at a Society of Women Engineers’ (SWE) National Convention. During her remarks, she referred to the Yoda Syndrome — which basically means if you don’t look like the expectation (tall, white, male) then people walk right past you or don’t listen to you or don’t value your opinion. In the movie Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back, our hero Luke Skywalker is ready to learn how to use his Jedi skills and goes to the planet where the Jedi master, Yoda, resides. Luke walks right past Yoda because in Luke’s eyes, the squat green creature can’t be a Jedi master. Small women experience the Yoda syndrome. We have to demonstrate our competence and credibility over and over — in fact, in every new situation, with every new client, constantly!

And like Yoda, small women are invisible. Luke Skywalker walked right past him. We have to learn to be excellent in what we do and find our voice. A story — let me set the scene. New York City, July 1990. Hot and humid. There has just been a huge thunderstorm that dumped a lot of rain in a short period of time. Three of us are leaving the SWE National Convention hotel in a cab to LaGuardia Airport. There is a lot of standing water on FDR Drive. We pass a cab on the side of the road that has overheated. Then, the temperature indicator in our cab starts to rise. Gina, almost 6 feet tall, is sitting in the front seat of the cab. She tells the male cab driver to turn the heat on. He looks at her like she has lost her mind. I am in the back seat — I trust Gina, I don’t know why the heat needs to be turned on — but she’s an engineer. So, in my “big” voice (my second husband says I am not intimidating until I open my mouth), I say “TURN THE HEAT ON!!” The cab driver turns the heat on, the taxi does not overheat, and we make it to LaGuardia Airport.

In summary — my biggest challenges or obstacles are credibility and invisibility.

Can you share a few of the things you have done to gain acceptance among your male peers and the general work community? What did your female co-workers do? Can you share some stories or examples?

I have worked as hard as I can to be competent. I am always learning — you have to be a lifelong learner in the engineering profession. For my board seats, I read business publications as well as trade publications to understand the business, economic and technical trends and happenings in the world and in my industry. I participated in many volunteer organizations within the engineering community and rose to leadership positions in most. I did learn to play golf — but I’m terrible and after getting tendonitis in both wrists, I stopped. At times along the way, it has been very helpful to have golf knowledge. I got involved in the professional trade association, breaking many barriers and paving the way for other women. I also broke barriers for other women on my corporate boards. I did all of this with a sense of humor — I do have two brothers so I learned a lot while growing up about how to handle male-dominated environments.

Early in my years on the Merrick board (when I was the only woman), we were asked to review a particular employee handbook. Being a writer — and a very good editor — I read the handbook. I was fairly outraged by the tone and approach. I also made edits in the document. When I completed my review, I emailed the Chair of the Board and the Corporate Secretary and told them I had concerns. Neither responded to the email. The day of the board meeting dawned. Twelve men and me. The Chair starts the discussion at 8:30 am on the handbook — going in a circle around the table — I am thus next to last. Comments are received from the other board members as well as outside counsel “Great.” “Good Job.” “I Like It.” My turn. I say — I don’t like the tone of the document. It reads to me as very elitist. And I explain why. Throughout the rest of the meeting, which lasts until noon, each man on the board finds a way to use the word “elitist” in his comment on other items of business. They are “hazing” me but also accepting me.

I joined the Georgia Transmission Corporation board in 1997; one other woman was on the 13-member board. The men are somewhat remote, friendly but not warm. In about year 3, it is the time of year to take a picture of the board for the Annual Report. The photographer has put three high stools in the area where the photo shoot will take place. The board chair is instructed to sit in the middle of the three stools. The other woman and I are instructed to sit on the other two seats on either side of him. The Board Chair says he is a thorn between two roses. And then he says, he doesn’t know where to put his hands. Finally, the dam of propriety was broken and we could develop warm and lasting relationships on the board. Humor led the way — again.

What do you think male-oriented organizations can do to enhance their recruiting efforts to attract more women?

I’m not sure the issue is recruiting women as much as it is retaining and ensuring women have the opportunities to reach their potential. The 1999 MIT School of Science study is instructive. Women were so optimistic when they joined the faculty at MIT but at mid to late career, they had been systematically marginalized. When Dr. Nancy Hopkins told MIT President Charles Vest that, he did not believe her. He said, we’re MIT, show me the data. She got the data. Inequitable distributions were found involving space, amount of 9-month salary paid from individual research grants, teaching assignments, awards and distinctions, and inclusion on important committees and assignments within the department. In addition, women were believed to be seriously underpaid. Changes were made.

When companies say they don’t have a gender pay gap, or gender disparity in promotions, training, mentorship, whatever — see what the data show — if it is ever available (mostly, not available). How many women are on their board? The same issues, by the way, will exist with people of color.

Many changes can be made but first there has to be a recognition that the unconscious and affinity biases are at work.

Ok thank you for all of that. Here is the main question of our interview. Based on your opinion and experience, what are the “Five Things You Need To Thrive and Succeed as a Woman In a Male-Dominated Industry?” (Please share a story or example for each.)

How do you thrive and succeed as a woman in a male-dominated industry?

First, you have to have more than thick skin — one of my friends calls it rhino skin. The arrows and pellets aimed at you have to roll off. You have to learn not to take things personally. I wrote an article years ago titled “Snappy Responses to Obnoxious Comments.” Here are a few examples:

Obnoxious Comment: You don’t look like an engineer. OR You really look like an engineer.

Snappy Response: Thank you. OR Why would you make a comment like that? OR I use a lot of makeup.

Obnoxious Comment: Must be that time or the month. OR You must be on the rag.

Snappy Response: What a rude thing to say. OR Would you want someone saying that to your wife (daughter, sister)? OR I can’t believe you would be crude enough to say that OR You’re obviously not addressing me.

And my all-time favorite exchange which is between Sir Winston Churchill and a woman of high society:

Woman: Sir Winston, I believe you’re drunk!

Sir Winston Churchill: Yes, Madam. But in the morning, I will be sober. And you will still be ugly.

Second, you must be excellent technically in your job. Work hard. Be good at what you do. Become an expert — invited to speak at industry conferences. If your company has internal awards, make sure that you are nominated for the appropriate ones. Check out awards at your alma mater and get nominated for appropriate awards there. And check out professional and community organization awards and get nominated for the appropriate awards there as well. Become like my friend, Jackie, whose nickname was “Do Most” because she could do most whatever she was asked. Complete a major power plant construction project on time and on budget. Check. Oversee the studies needed and the preparation of the application for a certificate of public convenience and necessity for a new power plant. Check. Supervise the entire process from issuance of a request for proposals to project construction and completion of a power plant. Check. Always deliver. Always follow through on your commitments. Be reliable. Be dependable.

Third, hone that sense of humor. You will need it constantly. Learn to laugh at situations. Learn to laugh at yourself. I am in a client meeting — 13 men and me. Two of the men are developers who want to develop a power plant. During the meeting it becomes obvious that they really don’t know what they are doing. They don’t know where the power plant will be located — haven’t even decided which state. Don’t know how big it will be. Don’t know when it would become operational. As the President of the utility (Bob) and others ask them questions — the answers keep changing. Bob gets frustrated and finally says, “Will you make up your mind? Or are you going to continue to be as fickle as a . . .?” Then Bob turns beet red, looks at me, and I say, “What are you going to do now, Bob?” And he completes the sentence “a woman.” A keen sense of humor, used often, is imperative.

Fourth, emotional intelligence is not optional. Emotional intelligence includes the ability to handle one’s own emotions and to relate appropriately and empathetically with others. The four categories of emotional intelligence are self-awareness, self-management, social awareness, and relationship management. When you have high emotional intelligence, you not only know how you feel but you also know how others feel and you are able to adjust your behavior as the situation warrants. Use your intuition often — trust it. It will serve you well. Two of my male colleagues and I are in New York in January 1991. We are arranging the financing of a major power plant with New York bankers and attorneys. We are in the conference room of the attorney’s office at 7 pm at night. Someone calls into the conference room — turn on the radio. The Kuwait War has started. I watch the banker we are with. He has a different color pen for each topic area. He is putting the caps on all the pens and putting them away. I say to my two male colleagues, “This meeting is over.” They said, “How do you know?” And I said, “Because David just put all of his pens away.” Use your eyes, your ears, your heart, and your intuition.

Fifth, cultivate your social support network. As we learned in spades during the COVID-19 pandemic, we are social animals and we need contact with other people. We need people who care about us and our physical and emotional well being. We need a network of people who encourage us. If you don’t have a social support network, get one. My primary support structure for years and years has been the Society of Women Engineers. A place where I was accepted. A place where I did not have to prove myself. A place where others understood and had similar experiences. A place where others could relate to me and tell me I wasn’t crazy.

If you had a close woman friend who came to you with a choice of entering a field that is male-dominated or female-dominated, what would you advise her? Would you advise a woman friend to start a career in a field or industry that’s traditionally been mostly men? Can you explain what you mean?

I have spent more than forty years encouraging other women to enter science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) fields and pursue STEM careers. I can’t imagine a better career for me than what I’ve had in the electric utility industry. I would tell her that it isn’t all roses — but life isn’t all roses — all of us face obstacles constantly (or as Sister Lydia Peña said in my book Over, Under, Around, and Through: How Hall of Famers Surmount Obstacles — For, without obstacles, there is no life). I am reminded of the IBM advertisement in magazines from the 1980s which featured two sets of baby booties — a blue pair and a pink pair. The thrust of the ad is this: the blue baby booties are encouraged to pursue STEM careers and the pink baby booties are not. But what if the cure for cancer is in the pink baby booties and she is not encouraged? How can we not take advantage of the potential of everyone to solve the many technological challenges facing the world today?

Have you seen things change for women working in male-dominated industries, over the past ten years? How do you anticipate that it might improve in the future? Can you please explain what you mean?

Societal change is slow but there are more women pursuing STEM careers now versus when I started. I worked with the National Academy of Engineering from 1997 to 1999 on a Celebration of Women in Engineering task force that culminated in a symposium. Our theme for that symposium was “50–50 by 2020”. We were quite overly optimistic. So was the Society of Women Engineers which when founded in 1949–1950 envisioned parity in the not-too-distant future and here we are 70 years out and not close to parity. But where would we be if we didn’t at least have a goal?

We are very blessed that some very prominent names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them.

Melinda Gates. We share a common mission to advocate for women worldwide.

Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.